ALLTEL TOTAL FREEDOM GUARANTEE -- Yeah, RIGHT!!

[Eni Gami]

Ok, here's the situation. I've been a customer with ALLTEL for going on 5
years (don't ask why, cuz as it is their service, at least where I am,
sucks, and their customer service, is god awful). Actually, I don't use the
phone, my brother does, and we're just too comfortable, at least until
number portability comes along, to make a move.


Anyhow, here's the scoop. He had the Motorola v60 for close to a year now.
We haven't been under contract for a good 3-4 months. Last week, he decided
he wanted to get the Motorola T720 (another mistake -- I know, I had the
VZW version).

Anyhow, he figured he'd sign a two year agreement, to get the T720 at the
discounted price. So he renewed (he also currently has an unlimited airtime
plan that ALLTEL has discontinued here, so he got to keep that, and figured
signing for two years would lock that plan in too).

Nonetheless, we got the phone, let it charge and all that happy stuff. Two
days later, we started having problems -- locking up, powering off during
charging, all kinds of garbled trash on the screen, and constantly having to
take the battery out to get each problem resolved.

He got upset and said screw it, so we went back to ALLTEL today to return
the phone and end the 2 year agreement, since they have this wonderful TOTAL
guarantee program that allows you to use the service 15 days and if you
don't like it.... etc.. (just like Verizons Worry Free Guarantee)..

Well they tell us first off, that the phone needs new software, and the
sales rep literally YANKS the phone from my hand. Then he tells us that we
can NOT cancel and get out of the contract -- because the guarantee is only
good for NEW customers, not for re-newals (their website, nor their
'handout' that explains the GUARANTEE implies "new or existing customer"
related topics).

So. I'm wondering is ALLTEL in the wrong here? I called CS and was on hold
for 20 minutes to be told that a supervisor would NOT speak to me, and that
I was pretty much SOL. That's real good customer service for you.

I'm just wondering if they can do this. Since the fine print makes NO
mention of new, old, existing, renewing, or any type of customer, I would
imagine I can get out of the contract -- at this point, my brother just
wants to go back to month to month with his v60 and wait it out till number
portability hits, and I'd think at least ALLTEL would realize that and say
"Hey, he's not LEAVING, we're getting the phone back, and he's still staying
a customer (god knows why)"

Anyhow, if anyone can offer any insight, ideas, suggestions, or who I can
contact. ALLTEL's website used to have a list of contacts, by region (like
VZW's website), but I guess they removed it due to too many complaints.

Thanks.

[Eni Gami]

I'm not really worried about the phone. The issue here is the fact that I
wanted to RETURN it, under their 15 day total freedom guarantee -- which
equates to "if you're not happy, bring it back, and you pay for what you
used".

This was not the case however. It was as if I am required to keep the phone,
and new contract, regardless of my dis-like of the phone (under their
guarantee). I've had problems with phones with Verizon, and I've never once
been told that I had to keep it, as long as I was under my "Worry Free
Guarantee" period. I have several accounts with both Verizon, and Alltel,
and Alltel has proven itself, tremendously this time, to be the absolute
worst in customer service, and standing behind their "Guarantees".

As I stated, I just want out of the contract -- their "Total Freedom
Guarantee" states that if you are unhappy within the first 15 days, simply
let them know and you can cancel, and pay only for what you've used -- they
are not willing to let me do this, since I "renewed" my contact -- even
though their webpage, nor the pamphlet they gave me indicates "new" or
"existing" customers qualifications for said "offering".


"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> You might be interested in a couple of FEDERAL laws that apply to the
> PHONE, but not the service. As it's the PHONE that's crap, the
> Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 Section 2300) IS in
> force as the phone has a WRITTEN warranty and the dealer (Alltel in
> this case), whether they like it or not, ARE covered by the law. It's
> why WalMart cheerfully refunds your money when the zipper comes apart
> in the new pants.....
>
> Great reading is on:
>
> http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
> which is the online manual for SELLERS of ANY product not specifically
> exempted by the Federal Trade Commission who is the agency tasked with
> its enforcement.
>
> They DO have a reasonable time (30 days in court) and reasonable
> number of attempts (3 in court) to fix it.....to YOUR SATISFACTION,
> not theirs!
>
> The law is on Cornell's Law Library on:
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/sales.html
> Click on Magnusson-Moss on the right then pay particular attention to
> section 2304 (a) (4) which states in PLAIN English:
>
> "(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or
> malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to
> remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must
> permit the CONSUMER to elect either a refund for, or replacement
> without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The
> Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what
> constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds
> of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the
> warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such
> replacement shall include installing the part in the product without
> charge."
>
> I've capitalized CONSUMER in the quoted text so you don't miss
> it...(c; THEY have to satisfy YOU with any product sold with a
> warranty to a consumer.....including defective cellular phones.
>
> None of this covers the crappy service you describe. For that, I'd
> contact your state's attorney general's office.....
>
> Well, just for your information. All consumers need to read the FTC
> manual. Companies poo-poo it until your attorney contacts them....(c;
>
>
>
>
> Larry W4CSC
>
> "No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
> not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"
>

[Larry]

I still don't think they can just shove it down your throat and get
away with it. I'd sure make their lives miserable until they
relented, personally, but that's just me.

Merchants always regret trying to screw with me......(c;

Stand at the front door and greet everyone coming in and say, "Hi,
Welcome to Alltel! Look at my crappy phone they won't take back that
sucks! Don't you want to go to someplace better to get your new
phone?" Signs and placards parked across the street are also
effective.....



On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:20:57 GMT, "Eni Gami" > wrote:

>I'm not really worried about the phone. The issue here is the fact that I
>wanted to RETURN it, under their 15 day total freedom guarantee -- which
>equates to "if you're not happy, bring it back, and you pay for what you
>used".
>
>This was not the case however. It was as if I am required to keep the phone,
>and new contract, regardless of my dis-like of the phone (under their
>guarantee). I've had problems with phones with Verizon, and I've never once
>been told that I had to keep it, as long as I was under my "Worry Free
>Guarantee" period. I have several accounts with both Verizon, and Alltel,
>and Alltel has proven itself, tremendously this time, to be the absolute
>worst in customer service, and standing behind their "Guarantees".
>
>As I stated, I just want out of the contract -- their "Total Freedom
>Guarantee" states that if you are unhappy within the first 15 days, simply
>let them know and you can cancel, and pay only for what you've used -- they
>are not willing to let me do this, since I "renewed" my contact -- even
>though their webpage, nor the pamphlet they gave me indicates "new" or
>"existing" customers qualifications for said "offering".
>
>
>"Larry" > wrote in message
...
>> You might be interested in a couple of FEDERAL laws that apply to the
>> PHONE, but not the service. As it's the PHONE that's crap, the
>> Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 Section 2300) IS in
>> force as the phone has a WRITTEN warranty and the dealer (Alltel in
>> this case), whether they like it or not, ARE covered by the law. It's
>> why WalMart cheerfully refunds your money when the zipper comes apart
>> in the new pants.....
>>
>> Great reading is on:
>>
>> http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
>> which is the online manual for SELLERS of ANY product not specifically
>> exempted by the Federal Trade Commission who is the agency tasked with
>> its enforcement.
>>
>> They DO have a reasonable time (30 days in court) and reasonable
>> number of attempts (3 in court) to fix it.....to YOUR SATISFACTION,
>> not theirs!
>>
>> The law is on Cornell's Law Library on:
>> http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/sales.html
>> Click on Magnusson-Moss on the right then pay particular attention to
>> section 2304 (a) (4) which states in PLAIN English:
>>
>> "(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or
>> malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to
>> remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must
>> permit the CONSUMER to elect either a refund for, or replacement
>> without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The
>> Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what
>> constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds
>> of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the
>> warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such
>> replacement shall include installing the part in the product without
>> charge."
>>
>> I've capitalized CONSUMER in the quoted text so you don't miss
>> it...(c; THEY have to satisfy YOU with any product sold with a
>> warranty to a consumer.....including defective cellular phones.
>>
>> None of this covers the crappy service you describe. For that, I'd
>> contact your state's attorney general's office.....
>>
>> Well, just for your information. All consumers need to read the FTC
>> manual. Companies poo-poo it until your attorney contacts them....(c;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Larry W4CSC
>>
>> "No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
>> not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"
>>
>
>


Larry W4CSC

"No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"

[Menards 3170]

I'll start with the fact that you are correct, they should take the phone
back. The down side is that if they keep you hanging and thinking you can't
until the 15 days is up, than you can't. You have to demand that they cancel
it now.

As for standing inside the store and chasing off customers, and the other
wonderfully insightful ideas. If this was my store, the only thing that
would get you is a guarantee that the phone will not be returned. And you
escorted away by the police. I would find it funny, but would not recommend
it. Either Larry is trying to have fun at your expense, or he's just stupid.
His point is correct though, you can't take no for an answer.


"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> I still don't think they can just shove it down your throat and get
> away with it. I'd sure make their lives miserable until they
> relented, personally, but that's just me.
>
> Merchants always regret trying to screw with me......(c;
>
> Stand at the front door and greet everyone coming in and say, "Hi,
> Welcome to Alltel! Look at my crappy phone they won't take back that
> sucks! Don't you want to go to someplace better to get your new
> phone?" Signs and placards parked across the street are also
> effective.....
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 15:20:57 GMT, "Eni Gami" > wrote:
>
> >I'm not really worried about the phone. The issue here is the fact that I
> >wanted to RETURN it, under their 15 day total freedom guarantee -- which
> >equates to "if you're not happy, bring it back, and you pay for what you
> >used".
> >
> >This was not the case however. It was as if I am required to keep the
phone,
> >and new contract, regardless of my dis-like of the phone (under their
> >guarantee). I've had problems with phones with Verizon, and I've never
once
> >been told that I had to keep it, as long as I was under my "Worry Free
> >Guarantee" period. I have several accounts with both Verizon, and Alltel,
> >and Alltel has proven itself, tremendously this time, to be the absolute
> >worst in customer service, and standing behind their "Guarantees".
> >
> >As I stated, I just want out of the contract -- their "Total Freedom
> >Guarantee" states that if you are unhappy within the first 15 days,
simply
> >let them know and you can cancel, and pay only for what you've used --
they
> >are not willing to let me do this, since I "renewed" my contact -- even
> >though their webpage, nor the pamphlet they gave me indicates "new" or
> >"existing" customers qualifications for said "offering".
> >
> >
> >"Larry" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> You might be interested in a couple of FEDERAL laws that apply to the
> >> PHONE, but not the service. As it's the PHONE that's crap, the
> >> Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 Section 2300) IS in
> >> force as the phone has a WRITTEN warranty and the dealer (Alltel in
> >> this case), whether they like it or not, ARE covered by the law. It's
> >> why WalMart cheerfully refunds your money when the zipper comes apart
> >> in the new pants.....
> >>
> >> Great reading is on:
> >>
> >> http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
> >> which is the online manual for SELLERS of ANY product not specifically
> >> exempted by the Federal Trade Commission who is the agency tasked with
> >> its enforcement.
> >>
> >> They DO have a reasonable time (30 days in court) and reasonable
> >> number of attempts (3 in court) to fix it.....to YOUR SATISFACTION,
> >> not theirs!
> >>
> >> The law is on Cornell's Law Library on:
> >> http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/sales.html
> >> Click on Magnusson-Moss on the right then pay particular attention to
> >> section 2304 (a) (4) which states in PLAIN English:
> >>
> >> "(4) if the product (or a component part thereof) contains a defect or
> >> malfunction after a reasonable number of attempts by the warrantor to
> >> remedy defects or malfunctions in such product, such warrantor must
> >> permit the CONSUMER to elect either a refund for, or replacement
> >> without charge of, such product or part (as the case may be). The
> >> Commission may by rule specify for purposes of this paragraph, what
> >> constitutes a reasonable number of attempts to remedy particular kinds
> >> of defects or malfunctions under different circumstances. If the
> >> warrantor replaces a component part of a consumer product, such
> >> replacement shall include installing the part in the product without
> >> charge."
> >>
> >> I've capitalized CONSUMER in the quoted text so you don't miss
> >> it...(c; THEY have to satisfy YOU with any product sold with a
> >> warranty to a consumer.....including defective cellular phones.
> >>
> >> None of this covers the crappy service you describe. For that, I'd
> >> contact your state's attorney general's office.....
> >>
> >> Well, just for your information. All consumers need to read the FTC
> >> manual. Companies poo-poo it until your attorney contacts them....(c;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Larry W4CSC
> >>
> >> "No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
> >> not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> Larry W4CSC
>
> "No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
> not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"
>
>

[Larry]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:38:43 GMT, "Menards 3170"
> wrote:

>I'll start with the fact that you are correct, they should take the phone
>back. The down side is that if they keep you hanging and thinking you can't
>until the 15 days is up, than you can't. You have to demand that they cancel
>it now.

Isn't that great "conditioning"? The courts hold that the limitations
on "Implied Warranty of Merchantability", which the FTC document says
CANNOT be simply weasled out of with a statement in limited warranty
is good for FOUR YEARS on goods that are not consumables! 15 days my
ass......
>
>As for standing inside the store and chasing off customers, and the other
>wonderfully insightful ideas. If this was my store, the only thing that
>would get you is a guarantee that the phone will not be returned. And you
>escorted away by the police. I would find it funny, but would not recommend
>it. Either Larry is trying to have fun at your expense, or he's just stupid.
>His point is correct though, you can't take no for an answer.
>
Nope....It's very effective. The merchant can do nothing once you're
off his property. Standing across the street with a 90' long
billboard with the TRUTH on it isn't an offense at all! Your rights
under the law are not affected by your advertising the truth about a
product and its dealer's service.

Another interesting tactic that works VERY well is to contact your
local broadcast TV news department's consumer hotline. A little TV
coverage by the investigative reporter asking pointed questions about
why they won't take back a brand new phone that DOESN'T WORK RIGHT
might be in order if you've exhausted letting them have their
opportunity to make it right.....(c;



Larry W4CSC

"No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"

[Menards 3170]

Larry, Is W4CSC your call sign?

Randy N8YUR


"Larry" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 18:38:43 GMT, "Menards 3170"
> > wrote:
>
> >I'll start with the fact that you are correct, they should take the phone
> >back. The down side is that if they keep you hanging and thinking you
can't
> >until the 15 days is up, than you can't. You have to demand that they
cancel
> >it now.
>
> Isn't that great "conditioning"? The courts hold that the limitations
> on "Implied Warranty of Merchantability", which the FTC document says
> CANNOT be simply weasled out of with a statement in limited warranty
> is good for FOUR YEARS on goods that are not consumables! 15 days my
> ass......
> >
> >As for standing inside the store and chasing off customers, and the other
> >wonderfully insightful ideas. If this was my store, the only thing that
> >would get you is a guarantee that the phone will not be returned. And you
> >escorted away by the police. I would find it funny, but would not
recommend
> >it. Either Larry is trying to have fun at your expense, or he's just
stupid.
> >His point is correct though, you can't take no for an answer.
> >
> Nope....It's very effective. The merchant can do nothing once you're
> off his property. Standing across the street with a 90' long
> billboard with the TRUTH on it isn't an offense at all! Your rights
> under the law are not affected by your advertising the truth about a
> product and its dealer's service.
>
> Another interesting tactic that works VERY well is to contact your
> local broadcast TV news department's consumer hotline. A little TV
> coverage by the investigative reporter asking pointed questions about
> why they won't take back a brand new phone that DOESN'T WORK RIGHT
> might be in order if you've exhausted letting them have their
> opportunity to make it right.....(c;
>
>
>
> Larry W4CSC
>
> "No, NO, Mr Spock! I said beam me down a WRENCH,
> not a WENCH! KIRK OUT!"
>
>

[Larry]

On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 22:01:28 GMT, "Menards 3170"
> wrote:

>Larry, Is W4CSC your call sign?
>
>Randy N8YUR
>
It is, now. Figured I'd bring Charleston's call to the city. The
original holder died in 1996. WCSC is a local TV station I have
friends who work for. Too funny...(c;

Previous calls were KN4IM, WB4THE, WN2IWH back in 1957 (I was 11).

How long you been a ham? What's your fav modes/bands/etc.

73 DE W4CharlestonSC

[Marvin L. Zinn]

Did you call their customer service line? I had a
disagreement recently with the local office, but the
customer service people were able to reach a compromise
that met my satisfaction, even though it was not
exactly what I wanted.

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to:
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

[K Mart]

This further emphasizes why I was right to ditch Alltel years ago. I
work for another carrier now, and the bottom line with us is the 15
days... not why. As long as you return the phone within 15 days, you're
clear. We even extend that slightly for customers who have the phones
shipped to them. These other posters are right, NO is an unacceptable
response. When WLNP hits, tell Alltel in the most convincing way you can
that they suck, leave.

[posted via phonescoop.com - free web access to the alt.cellular groups]